In the past, Courtship did not involve “boyfriends.” This is hard to imagine today, where it seems like you need a “boyfriend” for … about 58.7 months … to get married. But, that is a new thing.
Here, as a counterexample, is Bingley and Jane in Pride and Prejudice, a representation of “courting” from about 1810. Actually, this story has a lot of drama, since Bingley is convinced not to marry Jane at first, as she is well below him in social class. Probably, Bingley should aim a little higher, and Jane should aim a little lower. Since this is women’s fantasy, Bingley does marry Jane. But, there were no boyfriends, and not even any kissing first.
Probably many women would say: “OK, that’s fine with me, especially if he is as rich and good looking as Mr. Bingley.”
But what about men today? If you had, in front of you, a 22yo virgin, who is also a local beauty, from a good family, who is almost certain to be a Good Wife and Mother, trained in that role from birth, and you had to make an up/down decision with no kissing first, could you do it?
I met a young guy who was recently hired by a friend of mine (at a prestigious bank), who is close to retirement.
He is about 23. He has a long-term girlfriend, who he has been together with for about six years. I didn’t meet her, but I hear she is very beautiful.
Basically, they are High School Sweethearts, or maybe, met at the first year of college. Probably he is the only guy she has ever had sex with. Maybe she is the same for him. Probably, she is the same age, or a year or two younger.
He should just marry her. Right away. Plan for a wedding in three months. Get a prenup, and don’t sign any “marriage licenses.”
She has already said that she hopes he will marry her.
How can he possibly do better than this? Even if he dumped this girl, and they got back together three years later, she wouldn’t be the same. She has already demonstrated her ability to get along and maintain a long-term relationship. She is probably the most devoted woman this man would ever meet, in his life. (Unfortunately, not being exposed to most women today, he doesn’t know this.)
OK, it is possible, but not very likely.
I admit, it is somewhat difficult, or confusing, for a guy who is 23 and really just starting his career as “the new guy,” to consider wife and family. This is not what people do, today.
But, they have already been together for six years. Don’t dilly dally any more.
You don’t have to have children right away. You and her can just work, and live together, which is what you are doing already.
But, I would have children right away — at least three, in five years. This guy makes enough to support a wife and children. Babies don’t cost much. The wife would stay home, of course, but that is not a problem. A woman with newborns also doesn’t cost much. It is hard for her to even leave the house. No vacations in Greece, or even a restaurant trip.
It is actually a good thing that women mostly come to their senses, sometime after Age 26, and decide that they want to get married. Men have recently learned to avoid these types, since it sure seems like they are looking for a lifetime meal ticket after a decade of debauchery, by marrying a man that they don’t like much and will eventually despise. Nobody wants to be Captain Save-A-Ho. In practical terms, they usually make Bad Wives and Bad Mothers, before they divorce their hardworking man after a predictable eight years of marriage.
Among the PUA types, it is a general rule of thumb that the over/under on a woman’s bodycount is: 3 men for every year she lives outside of her parents’ house. Thus, a woman of 28 would have about (28-18=10)*3=30 previous sexual partners. This is the approximate middle of a very large dispersion, with some women genuine virgins, and others with a bodycount over 1000. Nevertheless, if there is any truth to it, it would mean that a lot of women have exceeded the 15 or so bodies that tends to put them in the Unfit For Marriage range on the right side of this chart:
In other words, they seem to have about a 20% chance of working out, and an 80% chance of failure.
These women’s pairbonding is typically so eroded that they are incapable of maintaining a monogamous relationship, even if it is in their own best interests. The stable predictability of monogamy seems interminably boring for a woman whose whole adult life consists of relationship drama. Sluts gonna slut.
Nevertheless, I think there are a lot of women in this range (age or bodycount) that were really not sluts and whores, and got there somewhat accidentally, in the process of trying and failing to establish a monogamous long-term “relationship” of the sort that today now seems like a necessary step toward marriage. Many are not Fugly and not Single Moms. I would like to say something encouraging to these women.
Here’s one who is actually a bikini competitor, and genuinely wants a family. You could do worse.
Why should a man marry you? The only good reason is to establish a family; that is, have children. Apparently, some women in this category do work out (about 20%). Why should a man think that you are one of the OK ones, and not one of the 80% that are bad news? Even if a woman’s natural pairbonding potential is somewhat exhausted, and she carries some difficult memories of many relationships gone bad, or not even starting, I think she could make a Good Wife and a Good Mother, if she sets her mind to it. If she doesn’t set her mind to it, or refuses to, then forget it. Why would any man marry a woman who doesn’t want to be a Good Wife and a Good Mother, as a matter of principle? And yet, these contentious feminist types are now the norm rather than the exception. Hard pass.
Being a Good Wife largely consists of two things: Being Pleasant, and Being Productive. “Productive” might be considered “net productivity.” A woman that does a lot of work, but also spends a lot of money, does maybe more harm than good. For a stay-at-home Mom, Productive largely means housekeeping, and various forms of child-rearing (I recommend homeschooling). But, I will allow for working women who bring in some money. We have to allow some flexibility in real-world arrangements. I wrote a long series on the characteristics of Good Wives.
I would read, and study, books like Fascinating Womanhood, Created to Be His Helpmeet, and The Surrendered Wife. You don’t have to agree with every line, but there should be some broad compatibility, and, you could say, ambition. If you find yourself instead straining for escape from basic wifely expectations, probably you are not cut out for marriage. So, just forget about it.
As a woman gets an idea of how to be a Good Wife and a Good Mother, she also naturally gets an idea of a Good Husband and a Good Father, which may not be at all the kind of man she was interested previously. Yes, there are legions of Where’s My Meal Ticket?whores who are also eyeing these men, as potential suckers. Good men should avoid these. But, these Good Men (that is, men who will be Good Husbands and Good Fathers) will probably notice pretty quickly that there is something different about those women who have an idea of being a Good Wife and a Good Mother.
For one thing, such a woman today should be open to the idea of a prenuptial agreement, which is a good thing, for women also, if you want to preserve a family. But, it would probably screen out the gold diggers/Captain Save a Ho/Feminist types pretty quickly.
If she is also a bikini competitor, that is OK too.
Although I think it is best when a husband makes the money and women stay at home to raise the children, we also have to deal with some real-world realities.
Here, I bet Tameka would have been perfectly happy to marry a man who is 6’3″, looks like an underwear model, has an IQ of 178, is a devoted husband, and makes three times as much as her. But, in the real world, this guy is probably as good as she could realistically do, especially at Age 37 (let’s say). Maybe he is 6’3″, looks like an underwear model, is a devoted and reliable husband, and has an IQ of 92. Most men who married the female equivalent (10/10 fitness instructor or bikini model making $44,000/yr, IQ of 92, devoted wife) would probably consider themselves pretty darn lucky.
Maybe he is 5’7″, is a devoted and reliable husband, has an IQ of 92, and is in the top 20% for looks. Did Tameka make a bad choice? Would a lifetime of single childlessness have been better?
Then, we have the difficult problem of how Tameka and her husband are going to make a marriage work, and not drive each other crazy. Even if Tameka brings a lot of money and a cushy lifestyle “to the table,” so to speak, if her husband is miserable, then he would have been better off single, or with a humbler woman who might be happy to be a stay-at-home Mom on a $44K budget.
Elizabeth Taylor, A-list Hollywood actress and considered one of the most beautiful women in Hollywood in her prime, married construction worker Larry Fortensky in 1991, at a ceremony at Michael Jackson’s Neverland Ranch. Fortensky fit the “hunky handyman” type well.
Elizabeth Taylor actually died a billionaire, mostly from perfume sales toward the end of her life.
As you might imagine, being married to Elizabeth Taylor was pretty tough for Larry Fortensky. Maybe he should have married someone else.
But, Tameka and her husband seem to have the potential to make each other very happy. I think I will look into how this might be accomplished later. As it turns out, I have a little experience in this, since my own sister is more-or-less in the same situation, and seems to have made it work.
While many women haven’t been able to fit a “boyfriend” into their schedule of full-time whoring, there are also many who seem “invisible.” Many are, I think, accidental virgins. Many are also Fugly, but here are two more that might make good wives.
“Dating” is deteriorating so quickly, it seems like it changes week to week. Now we have very attractive women complaining that it is hard to:
get married, have a long-term monogamous “relationship,” find an ongoing “situationship,” get taken to a restaurant.
This seems to be the natural outcome of online dating. Even the ugliest women swipe left (reject) 95% of the men on the first pass. Women fight over the remaining 5% and wonder why they can’t get commitment. Where are all the Good Guys? You Swiped Left on them on the first pass, baby.
Since these women very clearly could get a trip to a restaurant from someone, who is not too ugly, but actually in the Top 20% of men, but apparently need some training in how to do that, here we go:
Go on a dating app, preferably one that is not too whorish (Bumble instead of Tinder).
2. Out of the first 40 men that the app presents to you, you must Swipe Right (choose to connect) with 25% of them, or 10 men. Continue to Swipe Right on 25% of men until you get ten matches. Do not go beyond these first ten matches. If you are a 6/10 or less, then Swipe Right on 50% of men, until you get ten matches.
3. Contact these men via text, and immediately set up a date. Do not banter except to set up an in-person meeting. You should set up a meeting (a “date”) with all of the ten men you originally matched with. No video chats or other not-in-person options.
4. Go to whatever sort of date the man suggests. If he asks you what you want to do, tell him that you want to go to a nice dress-up restaurant, but that you are willing to pay for your own meal. Coffee dates, walks in the park, etc. are OK. This is because men don’t want to make a big date commitment for a woman they have not met before. There are a lot of Foodie Call girls, catfishers, filtered and photoshopped photos, old photos, age liars, marital status liars, and other stuff on dating apps. Or, a man might just find a girl repulsive in person. Anyway, if you want a relationship (instead of a free meal), it shouldn’t matter where you go. On your first date, be pleasant, fun, and agreeable, even if you decide that you do not want to see this particular man again. Make an effort. Do not just sit and wait to be entertained. This is not YouTube. Coffee dates or other daytime activities are actually good because that means a man is interested in getting to know you as a person. It is hard to hook up at 2pm in the afternoon. Low-key dates like coffee dates do not require much dressing up or makeup. About the typical “work day makeup” is fine. Men like to see what a woman really looks like. Go makeup-free if you have the guts. Evening drink dates are commonly Player types. You can still go on evening drink dates. But, stay at a public venue, like a cafe, bar, or a park. No at-home dates, such as “Netflix and chill.” Allow the man to kiss you at the end of the date (even if you don’t like him). However, nothing beyond a friendly kiss. No sex, especially with the evening-drink guys, even if you want to.
5. Go on a second date with at least seven of your original ten men. You can decline to meet again with up to three of the original ten men. Or, maybe they will decline to meet with you. Anyway, aim to go on a second date with seven of the original ten men. Do not get back on the dating app to find new dates. Work only with what you have already. You might not have liked them very much on your first date, but that might get better with a little more familiarity. Many men are not good at entertaining strangers on the first meeting, but make pretty good companions over time. If he is not good at entertaining strangers, then you can entertain him instead, so that you both have a good time. (You’re good at that, right?) This time, you can say that you want to go to a nice dress-up restaurant. Be pleasant, fun and interesting, even if you are not particularly attracted to a man. Pay for your meal, or allow the man to pay, if he wants to. Do not be resentful if you pay for your own meal. Allow the man to kiss you at the end of the date (even if you don’t like him). However, nothing beyond a friendly kiss. No sex.
6. Go on a third date with at least four of the seven men from your second date. Go to a nice restaurant, if you didn’t manage to do so earlier. Be pleasant, fun and interesting, even if you are not particularly attracted to a man. Pay for your meal, or allow the man to pay, if he wants to. Allow the man to kiss you at the end of the date (even if you don’t like him). However, nothing beyond a friendly kiss. No sex.
On this third date, ask the man: “Do you think you might be interested in getting married with me, perhaps within about six months?” Insist on a detailed, sincere, honest answer. No jokey, evasive answers. This might bring up a number of secondary topics, which you can discuss, such as: How many children do you want? Do you want to be a stay-at-home Mom? Are your parents divorced? Do you even have a father? Are you on prescription medications? Do this even if you do not want to marry this man.
7. Continue meeting with one or some of these remaining four men, or get ten new ones. This whole process (10+7+4=21 dates) should take 4-8 weeks. If you have sex with one of these men, then you have to immediately stop seeing other men. No more dating. You are in a monogamous “relationship.” If you are a virgin-until-marriage girl, then you obviously do not have sex with any of these men, and you can also continue dating. However, at some point, if you find the right sort of man, you should start to see him exclusively, with the aim of getting married within about six months of your first meeting; or, perhaps, not.
If men want to marry virgins, they are going to have to get used to marrying without sex first, or even kissing. This will require a sort of change of mindset.
This response is correct — such men should be disqualified. But, it is not too surprising that young men would feel this way, or fall into these habits. They naturally conform to “dating” expectations, without even conceiving of marrying without sex first. Also, not that long ago, in the 1950s and even continuing to today, it was pretty common for a woman to have sex before marriage with one man, who she later marries. But, this is not a good idea.
Thus, young men will have to get their minds around marrying a woman without kissing her first.
This is not really that hard, if you decide:
If you are going to get married “someday,” why not now? There might be good reasons not to get married now. But, even if you are not in a position financially to support a family, or feel that you are not, you and your young wife could just work for a while before having children. Of course, if you just want to whore around, then I suggest you find some non-virgin girl for that.
Decide within a 3-6 month period if this is the girl for you. If you are just looking for present-day fun, then “dating without sex” doesn’t make much sense. But, if you are looking for a wife, then waiting 3-6 months until a wedding is not a big deal. No interminable ongoing sexless “relationships.” Probably, within that amount of time, you will know everything that you can know beforehand, as to whether this woman would make a Good Wife and a Good Mother. You will work out expectations together: Stay at Home Mom? Homeschool? No vaccines? Christian? Children sooner, or later? Prenup agreement? Then, you will have to take your chances.
This is the way things were done for many centuries, so obviously it works. Men too will have to either Take A Stand with home and family, or be increasingly lost to aimless fornication or, more commonly, childless isolation. I think that men are not too uncomfortable with childless isolation, and that might be a solution for many. I’ve been talking about Taking A Stand with the Top 30% of women, and of course the Top 5%, which means: young beautiful virgins of good character. But, that leaves 70% of women unmarried (at least, not married by pickier men), implying also 70% of men unmarried (or, not married to the Top 30%). So, you don’t have to Take A Stand With Home and Family. Most will not. But, if you want to do that, this is how you should do it.
From a man’s point of view, this is just personal opinion. Some men like Bettys, and others like Veronicas.
From a woman’s point of view, it is confusion. A woman wants to know what is expected of her, in “her tribe.” For a long time, this “tribe” was society as a whole (“America”), or some fairly broad subset of society (“Los Angeles,” “upper middle class”). But, today there is too much difference in views. In time, we should, and probably will, form smaller, distinct “tribes,” where people basically share views on certain topics. Women can then become part of these tribes. They will have a coherent set of expectations to conform to.
For example, today there is the Sodom and Gomorrah tribe, where women are expected to be childless, self-supporting, on-demand sex kittens in constant rotation, slowly depreciating like used cars even into their sixties. Basically, this is the pattern of gay men. Then, there is the nascent Home and Family tribe, where young women are expected to remains virgins until marriage, and then, have a lot of children. There used to be a centrist Dating/Relationship tribe, but that is eroding with a sense of pointlessness. Today, these are mixed up in a confusing mess. A woman doesn’t know what to do. The Sodom and Gomorrah Tribe at least has active and functioning systems (Tinder, for example, and related forms of online whoring including TikTok and Instagram). They are ultimately self-destructive, but at least it is something that a woman can participate in, right now, today.
The Home and Family Tribe is still unformed. It does not have active and functioning systems, yet. Mostly, it is an ill-formed cloud of vague notions. Women who try to abide by these notions do not necessarily end up with Home and Family. Men are not necessarily offering those, in real life, but only as a sort of principle. Even Christian circles are badly polluted by feminist nonsense. Should a woman marry young, or wait until her late 20s? Should she pursue a career, or be a stay-at-home Mom? Should she go to college? Someone is going to have to make some decisions about this; and Tribes will form around this consensus. Probably, it will take parental guidance to get it going, with both young men and women nudged into forming families. They do not seem to do that naturally.
A man can form a “tribe of one.” He can, and today I think should, state all the expectations of his “tribe,” which is basically himself, for now. The woman that he meets will not necessarily already be conforming to these guidelines. But, she should be friendly to the idea, and willing to participate, much like a new employee at a corporation. I would state that I prioritize a woman that stays at home with the children, and homeschools. I would state how many children I would like (three or more), and in what timeframe (soon). I would state our political stance (some flavor of conservative), and related views (no rainbow shit, no vaccines). I would state some expectations (always look good, especially after you have children; keep a beautiful house; become a good cook). I would probably give a woman some books, like Fascinating Womanhood or Created to Be His Helpmeet, and see what her reaction is. This is not something that you do on the first date, of course. But, if you are at all serious about marriage, then I would do this.
One Tribe that appears around this time of year, is the Hunting Tribe. I think it is charming when families start walking around town in matching RealTree outfits.
“Julianna,” who we saw back when she was a 19yo dream babe and “never been kissed,” is now 27 and still a virgin. Good for her, but something is definitely wrong when someone who is, let’s say, in the top 2% of wifey girls is not married. You would think that, with most men still marrying eventually, and a distinct shortage of decent girls to marry, the wifey girls would be in high demand. But, no.
It sounds like she met a compatible sort of man, but they couldn’t get it going. Mostly, the guy’s fault, by the sounds of it. Today, it would not be hard for me to make an up/down decision in the space of a few months. Having been married for over 20 years, it is not hard for me to decide to be married … or not. But, I think a lot of young men are waiting for some kind of “sign,” which mostly doesn’t arrive because that “sign” is mostly an attachment that comes from having sex before marriage.
Go to YT and read the comments too.
Part of the problem, it seems, is “dating.” Mostly, as she says, this doesn’t work out, because, as Tom Leykis said, “dating is fucking,” or, as the polite Christians say, “fornicating.” (Same thing.) A woman should, I think, announce clearly that this is “courtship,” which will clear out 95% of the riffraff, and also, perhaps, attract a few men who are actually interested in a wife and family, who would not otherwise rouse themselves. (In the process of Courtship, you can go on a date.)
Then, there is the talk of a “relationship,” which is also not in the Courtship model. A “relationship” is basically a sort of proto-marriage that arises from “dating.” It was something that appeared in the mid-twentieth century, as a hybrid between Courtship and open-ended fornicating. “Courtship” is mostly non-exclusive until there is a marriage proposal. In practice, there would be a more serious stage of courtship, where a couple would see a lot of each other, with a proposal expected quickly thereafter (a few months). But even this, I think, is not what you would call a “relationship.” I can see how a sexless “relationship” might dissipate into pointlessness if it was not heading, rather quickly, in the marriage direction.
There is a lot of talk about “waiting,” but people didn’t wait that long back in the day. They “waited” during about six months of Courtship, and got married at Age 19 (for women). So, stop waiting!
As I have said, we are going to have to take a stand somewhere, so let’s take a stand with the Top 30%. The other 70% — the Fuglies, whores, single moms and good-girls-gone-bad — we will leave aside.
For example, just from this ten minute video, we know:
She is at least an 8/10, maybe a little higher due to makeup and hair skills (and maybe filters…).
She is a virgin, which is nice in itself, but also shows a lot of self-discipline and strong values in general.
She has a soft, feminine voice. No girlboss posturing, or other strong feminist energy.
She appears interested in home and family. I do not have the impression that she wants to “have it all” or find some kind of compromise between career ambition and children. She would probably be very happy as a stay at home housewife.
Given all the above, her politics probably tend conservative. No rainbow/woke crap.
She is 27, which is not too old, although not too young either. As a virgin, she has not accumulated the damage that most girls do by Age 27.
This combination of virtues, I would argue, puts her in the Top 10% of all potential wives today. Maybe, if there is not a lot to put on the “cons” side — in the Top 2%, as I said earlier. Of course there may be a lot that we don’t know. Maybe some of that would come out in time. But, if we just say Top 10%, his leads to the next question which is: Is she good enough? Does she meet some minimum standard? (Absent unknown problems, yes.) Next: What are your chances of doing better? (For most men, not a whole lot.)
You see, it is not that hard to pick a woman. We can have a bit of get-to-know you time. And, of course, she has to be interested. Obviously, we can never know what marriage might have in store, ten or twenty years down the line. You do what you can do, and then you take your chances. If you are going to marry, then basically you just do it. Don’t drag things out. If there are no other red flags, then get it done in, let’s say, six months.
There should be some reward for being virtuous. The reward used to be: You would get your own house and husband at Age 18 or 20. Today, even as we watch millions and millions of young women get lost in the swamps of open-ended harlotry, there are also many who reach the age of 25 and have never been on a date. Many of them overtly want a home and family.
Read the comments for more details. There are probably a lot of 4/10s-6/10s here, but they aren’t all landwhales.
Soooo …
Are these “Femcels”?
Basically, I guess they are. Men argue that a real Femcel can’t possibly exist. But, there are a lot of men who consider themselves “incels” although they could pay a woman at any time. Or, maybe they do pay women but still consider themselves “incels.” So, maybe it is a little like that.
Cornerstone 